by Scott R. Tucker

April 22, 2021

Wes Schaeffer

In today's episode, we will have Wes Schaeffer, The Sales Whisperer®, a pigheaded entrepreneur who rehabilitates salespeople and trains their managers. He's a reassuringly-expensive copywriter, sought-after speaker, and marketing automation expert. He is the author of 2.5 books on sales, marketing, and CRMs, host of The Sales Podcast, host of The CRM Sushi Podcast, and he will help you grow by mastering the overlooked truth in life that to make any sale, you must make every sale. 

Episode Highlights:

02:17- What's life like for Wes these days?

03:49 - “To make any sale, you must make every sale” mindset 

06:20-  Every little thing in preparation matters in the ultimate sale. 

10:39- You don't need a degree, but real-world experiences and dependability 

14:55- Invest in additional training through a support group  

18:21- The weekly group training is the best. 

20:26- Invest in yourself as a wealth management strategy. 

3 Key Points:

  1. In business, all little steps matter, so to make that ultimate sale, include every detail (e.g. logo, email, social media page, etc.).
  2. Real-world experience and dependability are what companies' are buying, not the degree.
  3. There are different tactics in every sales environment, so invest in additional training through a support group or someone that's already been there, done that.


  • “If I can succeed in that environment, why not just go on my own? “- Wes Schaeffer
  • “As a veteran, you already know how to work harder and get the job done, regardless of what obstacles you encounter, and that is what companies will pay for.”- Wes Schaeffer
  • “You don't need a degree. Get practical experience, take the online classes at night, then grow.
  • “Your real-world experience and your dependability are what they're buying.”- Wes Schaeffer
  • “You better invest in additional training, some type of support group to ask questions because as you learn, there are different scenarios. “-Wes Schaeffer
  • “Dive in, give until it hurts, and as long as you invest in yourself, it'll always pay dividends.”-Wes Schaeffer

Transcript: 014 with Wes Schaeffer The Sales Whisperer - Make Every Sale

Scott Tucker:  In order to get the things you want and post-military life. You need to know how to communicate the value you can offer to others. Hi, I'm Scott Tucker. And welcome back to Veteran Wealth Secrets. In what we mean by communicate is really all ultimately sales skills. Whether you like it or not. If you're trying to convince somebody of something, whether it's. 

Convincing the kids to eat the vegetables or convincing somebody to buy something so you can get paid. Convincing someone to hire you so you can get a salary. It's all sales. And sales is really just communication. And that is the one thing we are definitely not taught in all of our years of education in the public school system, or even in higher education. 

It's glossed over in fact. Sales is considered a dirty word. And so how stupid is that? It's not helpful at all. The opportunity for you. Is to understand what it really is. That it's persuasion. It's influence. And it's a lot more. Than just verbal communication as well. That's why building a brand is so important. That's why positioning your assets and your resources, your financial resources, your benefits. 

Things that make you who you are, your skillset. Not just adding another certificate or another degree to your name. But adding rare and specialized skills that are highly valued. To others. And then. Understanding the most important skill. Is how you communicate it. 

So I think it's super important that veterans. Understand the skill set, but also understand the opportunities in the sales world. It's a lot more than you use car sales. And it's a lot more than just being a life insurance salesman, which ironically. Most people don't realize it, but that's technically what I am. 

I just realized that the way 99% of anybody selling life insurance does it. Is old school. It's not really helpful. It's not unique. It's not rare and specialized. And so that's what I learned how to do. But at the end of the day, I'm just communicating a need to, for people who need it. Happens to be a thing called life insurance. Sometimes I sell other things too. 

But that's how I make my living. And I realized when I was doing it the way the other 99% do. It wasn't anything special. Really frankly, you can just Google it. If you just look at for the standard stuff, everybody else is trying to buy people, come to me for something unique and different. 

So do you want to learn more about that? Of course. Check out my book, venerable, where I teach the secret and why it's so unique and so valuable. But in this episode of west Shaffer, the sales whisper. Veteran who is very powerful and helpful in the sales world. I'm excited to have him on the show. Very honored. 

That he would join us and share his insights to our community. So make sure you check him out as well. And if you haven't already please visit iTunes. And rate and review. Helped share the show with those who need to hear it. And we look forward to seeing you next time. Enjoy the interview with Wes.    

all right, everyone. Welcome back to Veteran Wealth Secrets. I'm Scott Tucker. And thank you so much for joining us on this show where we want to talk about, th the skills, the mindsets, the tips, the secrets. That we have, whether you're an active duty, you're going through a transition.

You're already a veteran and become wildly successful. Hey, we all have something that we've learned along the way that we could maybe help somebody else out on. And one of the most important things that I always talk about is learning the art of communication, the art of persuasion to get what you want or how you want to influence and help people.

And there's no better way to do that. Then with sales skills. So super excited to have West Shaffer on a quick introduction because this man is an ultimate professional, so we want to get it right. What Shaffer is the sales whisper, a pig headed entrepreneur. That's funny. Rehabilitate salespeople.

And trains their managers. Wow. You do need to be pigheaded to get through to some of those folks sometimes. So I'm looking forward to hearing those stories. He's reassuringly, expensive copywriter. That's important. You want someone that's good sought after speaker and marketing automation expert.

He is the author of two and a half books on sales, marketing, and CRMs hosted the sales podcast, host of the CRM. Sushi podcast. And he'll help you grow by mastering the overlook truth in life. That to make any sale, you must make every sale. So West, while you've got a lot of powerful stuff going on there as a Veteran, a great example for, I think in this day and age, especially, the ability to learn sales skills, whether you're selling windows or doing stuff online that, that gets us out of the trap of of having to go to school to get the degree, to get the certification.

So I know you've got a lot of insight on that but real quickly, tell us a little bit more about how you got to where you're at. What's the life like for you these days? Has it changed at all? And, what have you been working on. 

Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, man. I jumped right into sales in 97 after had a five-year commitment after the air force Academy and was married, we had a baby, we had known on the way and I jumped into commission sales and it's been it was a Rocky road at first.

I was with several companies. I was in a lawsuit with one of my very first one that I won three years later, but I was on unemployment, when my second son was born six months after leaving the air force. Wow. Got into high tech when it was peaking, hindsight's 2020. I spent a lot of time in technology.

The turmoil, the chaos, it made me realize if I could succeed in that environment one night just go on my own. And so started laying the foundation in 2005 into 2006, by 2007. I had I was on my own and we are now 13 years later, so alive and kicking. 

Scott Tucker: Awesome. Tell us a little bit about, you got this saying that to win any sale, you must win every sale.

Correct me if I said that wrong, I know you wanted to talk a little bit more about that today. W what does that mean? What does it mean to make a sale? And while a lot of us go into this kind of thinking, Oh, it's okay to hear and know, it sounds like you're saying maybe that's not the case, or at least that maybe that's not the mindset you should be having 

Wes Schaeffer: well, so there's a couple of meanings behind it.

So one is hearing no early is a win. Okay. Now, when I say, make every sale, The deeper meaning behind that is, in the preparation. Okay. Like we say, in the military, right? The more you bleed in training, the less you bleed in combat. So the example I always give is in dating. And I met my wife at a country bar 26 years ago.

So to make. That ultimate sale. So let's say my goal and go into that country bar was to get married. I had to, before I ever got there, I had to take a shower. I had to clean my clothes, had to shave, put on deodorant, not too much theater put on cologne, but not too much cologne, do all these things before I even arrived.

Okay. Then I had to decide, do I drink? How much do I drink? What do I drink? Do I dumb? Do I have mints? What does my breath smell? Each of those are little sales that, that we're teeing up before. Even that initial engagement, before I even laid eyes on my wife, I did all those things. Okay. So now how do I approach her?

That's a sale. What do I say, how do I dance? Do I get all fancy? Do I dance provocatively? So all of those little steps mattered. All right. So in your business, all of these steps matter, what does your website look like? What does your social media profile look like? What does your business card look like?

What's the font in your emails? What is your logo? All of those matter? How do I book a time with you? How do I schedule a demo? What does your contract look like? When it comes time to send me a proposal, we negotiate all of those messages to make any sale. You must make every sale. Okay. Each one of those is a little sale.

I've got to convince you to open my email. What does the headline look like? Okay. So you got to give thoughts of this. And because every little thing matters, people are so competitive now, and if you're 1% different they say, selling is a win-win, compared to your competition it's a win lose.

If I'm 1% better than you, and we're going up to the same contract, if I'm 1% better, I get 100% of the sale things matter. Yeah. 

Scott Tucker: Reminds me of how I think about LinkedIn. When I think about all these veterans getting out of the military, they go to their course. They get a one hour training webinar on using LinkedIn.

I, you got to put it up there, just. Because that's what the companies want. And it's do you know the math here? The average CEO level person on LinkedIn only has 900 connections and only 1% of people are doing any posting. If you're one of that 1%, you're just at the top, like it's so much better to network.

Why are, how can veterans think of themselves more like an individual business? And therefore, sell themselves out. Yeah. Maybe they need to go get a corporate job versus getting an entrepreneurship. But these are skillsets that they got to learn. Clearly they could make more money and control their life if they dude went the more self-employment route, but you're still selling yourself to an employer yet we seem to have this stigma that it's hard to get veterans jobs.

And do you think it has to do with that lack of just, I dunno, it seems so obvious. 

Wes Schaeffer: You just, you don't know what you don't know. So when you are when you're in the military setting you. You underestimate your value, right? Veterans or people in general, but veterans are especially or fall into one of two spectrums, either, either woefully lacking confidence and underestimate your value, or just too arrogant and over estimate your battle.

Most people though are underestimating the. The skills you have the things you take for granted. Look man, it's it was always this way. I worked as a recruiter for a while with a Veteran own company that, and we placed veterans leaving the service. Okay. And that was 20 years ago and it's more true today.

There are just unreliable people out there. They lie. They can't get to work on time. They can't work an eight hour shift. They're dishonest. They can't pass a drug test. They bring drama to work. It's look, dude, I don't care that you're hung over. I don't care. Whatever's going on in your life and do the work.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You got some things going on, we're going to try to help, we're not running a sweat shop here, but you got to prove yourself first. Okay. And as a Veteran, you already know how to work harder. You know how to get the job done regardless of what obstacles you encounter.

And that is what companies will pay for. You know my own kids, I got seven kids, two have graduated college, two are in college and I'm telling them, and the only reason that they've gone to college so far one got a 95% scholarship. The other got a scholarship through my service and he lived at home.

So it was essentially free. My, my third daughter is going to an online college, so it's super affordable and she's at home. So again, free. And my next daughter again, works from home lives at home. Right now they're there she's telecommuting because of COVID. It's just going to cost her net, maybe 20 grand to get a four-year degree from SDSU.

Because it's super affordable. I'm like, fine, go get your degree. It won't hurt you. But one is, I was talking to her yesterday. She's almost 21 years old and I'm like, you don't need a degree. Yeah. Hey companies, unless you going to be a teacher or something. Okay, fine. You need it for certain professions, but she's looking at marketing.

I'm like, I can introduce you to 27 people right now that will hire you low dollar. But you're working from home. Any, you live at home so you don't need much. Go get practical experience, take the classes online at night, but you can get practical experience and grow. So the experiences that we have as veterans and the character smart companies 

Scott Tucker: hire for chemistry 

Wes Schaeffer: for fit.

Okay. Do you have the right attitude? Because dude, I've got a geography degree and a meteorology degree. Hello, not doing either of them. All right. Very few people use their degree. So your real world experience is, and your dependability is what their mind you need to focus on selling in these interviews.

Because not all of, 'em not all of the civilians understand that. Okay. They've gotten better. All right. But they still don't completely understand it. So you've got a site in that scenario. 

Scott Tucker: That's for sure. It's we've been at this for 20 years where everybody's saying thank you for service, but.

We don't go that next step and say, Hey, tell me about the service that we can learn to communicate. We're always just talking past each other, but hopefully it's getting better. But I think, yeah, we got to learn the skills to be good ambassadors for ourselves. But you said you got out and got straight into commission sales.

Know I'm curious, were you like, yes, this is what I want to do when I get out. After the military, most times folks are coming out and saying, I don't want, know what I want to do when I grow up in my industry, in the financial industry, it's sales, they don't tell you that. Of course they tell you're a financial expert.

And so as years before I realized it was actually sales skills, I needed to be learning 95% failure rate turnover rate. They say, it's good for veterans. I'm curious. Sometimes I'm thinking with that kind of a high of turnover rate, we need more structure in orders versus some of the creativity you need to be in sales, but I still, I want to believe, Hey, if you want to control of your life, post-military make as much money as you want serve the right people.

You want, you got it. You got to get it into sales. Who is this right for? Who is it not right for you? Can you grow into it or do you need to be born for it? 

Wes Schaeffer: No, you can definitely grow into it. But very few organizations provide the true support that you need. They like veterans on the financial side because.

The honor, the integrity, the loyal Bubba brine service before self. So when you're talking with somebody about their life savings, they're like, okay, I trust this guy again, all things being equal. One, guy's a Veteran one. Isn't, they're probably going to go into Veteran. Okay. But everything it takes to get to that point is hard.

All right. It's you are, you're very much alone. You're getting a ton of resistance turn a ton of rejection. And it can be hard. You got this comradery, everybody's in it together, PT, Friday night at the club on the node. And then you're off on your own dude. You and a computer and a phone.

Yeah. They gave you some training, but dude, It's like literally clicking through the range. Okay. You qualify, you didn't kill anybody. All right. We're going to issue you a gun and now you're dropped into combat. Like, all I know is the end. That goes, bang. You're in it now.

Good luck. And that's literally what it's like. So you've got you better invest in some additional training, some type of support group. And not one of these one day, one weekend, one week intensives, again, it's like January 1st rolls around and you go to the gym at midnight until midnight on January 2nd.

Okay. I'm good. I'm in shape for the year, or do you go 30 minutes, 45 minutes, every day you, and that it's that consistency that pays off, but it's, it can be hard. So find someone find their group. That's why I started my training. I've got a group call every single Monday, private group to ask questions.

And cause as you learn and there's different scenarios, right? I said, okay, I know what Jen goes, bang. And then you it's like we, we trained like world war II and then all of a sudden, boom. Korea comes mountainous. We can't boom. Vietnam comes like, Oh hell, there's no flat terrain.

We're not, there's no lines. We just, progress. Boom. Okay. Then we get good in the jungle. Oh, let's go to the middle East. Totally different environment. It's yeah, I know which end is the bang in, but. Totally different tactics in each of those environments. So you get into a sales environment and okay, I'm good.

All right. You're good. One-on-one well, now what happens when you have two people, you have a husband and a wife, or you have a founder and a co-founder or the CFO and the CIO. What happens if you get a huge sale, you're going into a big company. You got five, 10 people sitting around the conference table, all with input on that.

So each of those are different. So find someone that's already been there, done that. To advise you coaching food in shorten your sales cycles it's going to pay dividends. 

Scott Tucker: Yeah I think that's something we struggle with. Coming out of the military, knowing that, Oh, there's so much I need to learn.

Where are my resources? Oh, don't worry. Veteran. There's all these free resources. And therefore we'll run you all through the same thing. You all look the same as you always did in the milk. That's not what it's supposed to be. We're supposed to be individualistic. We need to find our identity, what our skills are that we are good at which ones we can learn.

And unfortunately going sometimes to a four-year degree as a Veteran these days, Is really we're losing time because you can go out there on your own. As I've done, I've paid for coaches programs. I bought every online course, but I could take that course in a weekend implemented on Monday, watch it again the next week.

And as you said, build up the consistency, but I was implementing the skills right away and it was just, it was a great experience for me. Wes, thank you so much for your thoughts and insight as we're wrapping up here. Tell us a little bit more about what you do, who you serve specifically who should be coming you for your help.

I know you, weren't a lot of different hats specific things that you can help out with. So whether Veteran, I think Veteran business owners, who a lot of people we talked to on this show, there are only two improving their sales. What's next for you at the sales whisper. And and how can people reach out.

Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, for most folks listening to this, my weekly group training I have is probably the best. It's a, it's called the implementers. So it's part of implementation part mentorship, right? The You can sign up month to month. You could 50% off when you sign up for a year, but it's on demand.

Videos, workbook live recorded, weekly calls, private group, ask questions at any time. And that's going to be ideal for the majority of folks listening. If someone else, if you're a purely an entrepreneur, you've got things going on. Maybe you're a sales leader. And you want some private coaching, private consulting just go to the sales, and hit the contact us, and we'll talk about it.

And we've got different packages. I can customize around them, the private training, but one of those two things. But yeah, like I said, most folks listening to this, just go to the, read through that. And you can sign up right now and boom have immediate access to all the content.

Scott Tucker: Awesome. Thanks gang Wesson. Hey, for everybody out there, the one thing I do know about being a West point grad is that the smarter ones went to the air force Academy. So definitely reach out to West. If you're looking for those things in your business always. Always be improving finding ways, finding the right folks to help you out, whatever it is, even if you've got to actually pay somebody some money, getting all the free resources.

That's not always work for the veterans and we get caught in that trap. Thanks 

Wes Schaeffer: again, everybody does. Yeah. Look, you can learn how to become a brain surgeon online, but no joke. There's enough videos. It's never true, but whatever you spend money on, you're going to focus on right. Okay. We don't have a problem with information.

Now. Information is bounced for what we need is knowledge. What we need is right. We need to have the confidence to take the action on what we learn. That's what you're paying for. Okay. Dive in, give until it hurts. And I promise you, as long as you invest in yourself, it'll always be dividends.

Scott Tucker: Yeah. That's our Wealth minute management strategy. W we were going to. Just save money in the stock market, like giving the money to wall street and that's our whole bet on our entire future. Are we crazy? That's good. Financial advice? No. We need to build skills to create income sources for yourself and protect your assets.

Hey we see what the rich people do. It's not rocket science, but we've been brainwashed to believe. Do you want to live your life that way? I hope not. So if you don't definitely reach out to West, cause I think kill put some of that wisdom between your ears, for sure.

But that's it for Veteran Wealth Secrets today, we will see you next time. Thanks again. Hey man. Thank you.

About the author 

Scott R. Tucker

Scott R. Tucker is an author, speaker and the founder of US VetWealth, a lifestyle and financial consulting brand that helps service members go from paychecks and government benefits to wealth and liberty. He likes to say, "I Help The 1% Who Serve Our Country Become The 1% Who Influence It." A West Point graduate, serial world traveler, military financial expert, and entrepreneur, Scott brings valuable experience and insight to those who have sacrificed so much in service to our country.

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